New Baby? You Deserve More Support
September 9, 2025 | Episode 46
Producer’s Note: The following is an AI-generated transcript of The Wellness Conversation, an OhioHealth Podcast
SPEAKERS: Lindsey Gordon, Marcus Thorpe, Dr, Jessica Tucker
Lindsay Gordon 0:14
All right, Marcus, let's think back for a moment to a time that we probably blacked out, meaning we were so overwhelmed in the moment. We had no sleep. We were running on basically empty because we were caring for a newborn.
Marcus Thorpe 0:29
Yeah, I have a 15 and a 13 year old now at home, and we had him just across street here at Riverside. And I remember that first day with the first one of coming home, thinking to myself, What are they doing? Saying I have no idea what I'm doing, and I have to go home and raise this kid with just my wife and I no manual, no manual, and it was exciting and scary and all of those things, but I think you have no choice. You have to figure it out.
Lindsay Gordon 0:54
You have to just do it, and your instinct is everything. But luckily, more and more families and people and women are talking about this time when you bring home a new baby, and it's become known as the fourth trimester. You have three trimesters when you're pregnant, and now the fourth trimester is when a woman is recovering physically, emotionally, mentally, and we are finally at a place where there is resources and support for women, and we're moving in the right direction.
Marcus Thorpe 1:21
We have a great guest to talk about that, but before we meet our guests, we're asking you make sure you're liking rating and subscribing this podcast. We are watching our numbers grow each and every week, and we're really excited about that, but one of the ways that we can keep track of that is if you're subscribing to our podcast, and then when it gets shared, it lets other people join the conversation as well. Of course, if you have any questions about what we're talking about, you can drop them in the comments. We get them to our experts and get those answered and turned around for you. So it is a two way conversation. It's not just us having a conversation without you part of that conversation.
Lindsay Gordon 1:56
Absolutely. All right. Let's introduce our guest today, Dr, Jessica Tucker, who is part of your leading the new fourth trimester clinic at OhioHealth. So Dr, Tucker, thanks so much for being with us today and explain what you specialize in, because this is what's really important.
Dr Jessica Tucker 2:12
Yeah, so I'm a family doctor. I'm a family medicine physician. I trained here at Ohio Health at Grant, and then went on to sub specialize in lactation medicine. So I have a few different hats within the organization. I see patients as a family medicine doctor still, which is very important to me, very passionate about holistic family care. I also am the medical director of our milk bank, the Ohio Health mothers milk bank, and we serve and support babies with pasteurized donor milk in Ohio and some surrounding states. And then I also am a part of our fourth trimester program at Ohio Health and specifically within that role, I am a lactation medicine specialist, which is exciting. So lactation medicine has been something that physicians have been excited about and have recognized as valuable. And just recently, in 2023 was was part of the first round of board candidates to become board certified in lactation medicine. So I am part of a team, you know, just as in any other sub specialty, just like orthopedic surgeons, have physical therapists and athletic trainers in the lactation medicine and fourth trimester world, we're a team too. We have nurses and lactation consultants and Perinatal psychiatry, and we all work together to support the birth parent and the baby, and kind of come at the family with support from a multi disciplinary, comprehensive way. So I do lactation medicine, and specifically my, you know, passion and expertise is in supporting families who need kind of a medical layer to their lactation journey.
Lindsay Gordon 4:11
You're probably, if you're listening right now, you're probably thinking, what this exists, you know, like the first time I heard of it, I couldn't believe it, and I thought, Gosh, I wish I knew you, or had you when I had my kids. I mean, do you think the same thing? It's just so newly created. I can't believe we're finally here.
Dr Jessica Tucker 4:27
Yeah, I people say sometimes I'm like, gosh, where were you when I had my first kid? And I think, where was I when I had my you know, because I did not know what I know now, eight years ago, nine years ago, and we are all on a journey of becoming what we hope to be as parents and who we want to be as we support our families. And we are all learning as we go, and we're all learning along the way from very. Inputs in our in our own journeys.
Marcus Thorpe 5:02
So amazing to work at Ohio Health and to hear these terminologies that I think, if I didn't work here, and for people who are listening, maybe had no idea, is that the terminology of fourth trimester is something that we've been using recently. But it's not like we shouldn't have been thinking about the fourth trimester all along. It's just kind of that trimester that people just I had my baby, and now I'm just getting on with my life. Talk about what the fourth trimester really is, so people understand it.
Dr Jessica Tucker 5:31
So the fourth trimester is, I think the word that comes to mind is vulnerable. It's vulnerable for everybody, for the birth parent, there's a lot of risk involved, physically, emotionally for the baby as well, and for the support parents as well. You know, we know that postpartum depression isn't just limited to the birthing parent. You know, entire families can be impacted by this. And so fourth trimester care really is about wrapping multiple layers of support around a family, by understanding who that family is, where they're at, what they need, and really providing individualized care to that family to help them feel successful and proud of what they're doing as they're supporting and raising their young family
Lindsay Gordon 6:26
vulnerable, is a great way to describe that. Let's talk about what the fourth trimester clinic is. What does it look like? Where is it and how when did this start?
Dr Jessica Tucker 6:35
Yeah, so we so the fourth trimester clinic is in Dublin, through Ohio Health, we actually have had some smaller clinics open for a few years, but the Dublin office specifically opened in Gosh, check me on this. I think it was July of 24 Yeah, we just came across our year wow, Please edit that. And we started as just I was there a half day a week, and our amazing nurse practitioner, who also specializes in lactation medicine and family medicine as well, she was there a half day a week. And as we've grown, we have onboarded a perinatal psychiatrist, Dr kilbarger, who is phenomenal, and we work very closely with different hospitals lactation consultant teams. So depending on, you know, what the family comes to our program with, if they've already been seen, you know, at Pickerington or Riverside or Dublin lactation consultant offices, we work closely with that group of lactation consultants to continue to provide care that's close to home and convenient for the patient.
Lindsay Gordon 7:53
I have to just quickly say for a second how amazing that team of lactation consultants is. Because I having my second daughter, I was really worried it was the formula shortage, and my son had been a formula baby. I couldn't produce enough milk, so I went to the classes at Dublin Methodist, and I remembered it worked, and Cora was exclusively breastfed, but I remember getting a call from them one day like, you know, maybe eight weeks after she was born, and they said, hey, it's the lactation team, you know, we're checking in to see how you're doing. I'm like, well, she's we're doing it. We're doing the thing. And then they started celebrating on the phone, like, cheering. I'm like, these people are so happy for me, but they don't even really know me. But I don't know. I say that to say hashtag, not an ad. It's true. Like these lactation consultants are amazing. They really work wonders. They helped me tremendously.
Dr Jessica Tucker 8:42
The Ohio Health lactation consultant teams are incredible. Everybody is so passionate about supporting families with what they need, with individualized, tailored care. And it's not just a job. This is something that, you know, we think about in the evenings, when we're at our families soccer games, you know, I wonder how this patient's doing. I wonder how this family is doing. I wonder, you know, and we really care a lot about about our families and so to have that that follow through, you know, as a primary care doctor like I'm all about the longitudinal care, I want to know how things went. You know, our lactation teams feel the same way. They're very passionate. And, you know, even if they don't reach out to the patient necessarily, oftentimes they're reaching out to me, you know, Hey, how's this family? How's it going? I know you've seen them a couple times, you know, since I've seen them. And as we work back and forth, we both both sides. We care a lot,
Lindsay Gordon 9:39
and they get a bad rap. I think, because I remember when I was like, getting ready to have my first I heard, you know, horror stories from other women who were like, you know, the lactation consultant was really pushy with me, or this or that, not here a different state where I was living at the time, and I was just thinking, gosh, is that going to be the case for me? You know, am I going to know what to do? And I just, I had heard these horror stories. And I think. So the new approach is making women feel seen, feel heard, and if the milk supply is not there, it's not there, Fed is best, right?
Dr Jessica Tucker 10:08
I think there are a lot of points that you brought up in that. One is you said the word pushy, which does not belong in any healthcare right setting, let alone, you know, Women's Health in the birthing space and in the fourth trimester space. So something that is so important to me and our team, and I hope you know, as we move forward as a society, our entire healthcare system is eliminating that word pushy, and working to understand the goals of our family working to flex ourselves, our norms, our routines and expectations, to be able to, from an evidence based standpoint, meet families where they're at and give them the care that they need. I think the word pushy also kind of gets to something else that is so important in the fourth trimester space. And we talk a lot about a village. That's a word we say probably twice a day, at least in our office. And it's important to have a village. It's also important to have a good village and a supportive village. And you know, a lot of families come to me and say, Hey, this didn't go well with whoever it may be, whether it's a friend or an in law or a parent or anything like that. And I think it's important that we're not just talking about the fourth trimester while families are in the fourth trimester, but we're talking about the fourth trimester for people who are past menopause and maybe our grandparents and are getting ready to support their 20 or 30 something year old children entering the fourth trimester, and not just having this conversation when new parents are in turmoil, But having this conversation preconception or during pregnancy, and having conversations about, how do you plan to feed your baby? Who do you want to be in the room when you birth? Who do you want to be in the room during labor? Do you want visitors in the hospital, or do you want to wait for visitors? Have you had that conversation? Do you feel supported in that conversation? Because people don't realize how much feeling like a hostess sometimes moms can feel, and how stressful that can be. And that's the catch 22 with lactation is when you're really, really stressed, it can jeopardize breastfeeding in a really remarkable and significant way, and so part of the fourth trimester movement, may I say, because really that's what we're trying to create. It's not just care for families. It is care for families. But really this is about building a network of norm, building a new culture that supports the entire village, that's supporting the family.
Marcus Thorpe 13:05
Yeah, it's kind of a mindset shift, because, you know, the traditional way, or the way that everybody did it for decades and decades and decades, while for some people, that works, and you can lean into that. For others and this newer generation, they want, say in what they get and what they want and what they need and those kind of things. And I think that's a very positive way to think of things. And so if you're a supporter or a partner or a grandparent, you need to flex with the new parent, because it's about them and their baby and their family, not necessarily the way that you did it six decades ago. So I think changing that mindset helps everybody, in the long run,
Dr Jessica Tucker 13:45
gently said when we know better, we do better. And you can't just say that to somebody who's really passionate about something in the moment, but that's why we need to have these conversations now, when they're not passionate and heated in the moment and under the influence of feelings, because
Lindsay Gordon 14:04
I love that that's well said
Dr Jessica Tucker 14:06
so true. You know, grandparents love them sometimes they want to be in the room when baby's born in and that might not be the very best thing for the parent, and that certainly won't be the very best thing for the baby. And so trying to shift our perspective to a supportive pouring yourself out to the individual. You know, my some of my friends, are becoming grandparents now, no way. That's great. It's amazing. Yeah, my little girl asked me the other day, she said, What do you want to be when you grow up? I said, a grandma. I really want to be a grandma someday. So as I'm watching my dearly loved friends become grandparents, I'm watching from a different perspective. You know what they're seeing as they're supporting their children becoming parents, and they've all done a. An amazing job of understanding what their children need as they become parents and giving that space. And, you know, I sometimes I just want to say it's not about holding the baby first to some families like, get in there and do their dishes, man, do the laundry. You know that parent really wants to be with their baby, and that parent might feel sad sharing their baby right away. You know they are sleep deprived, they're emotional, they're scared, and you know for the support around this family, whatever relationship that is. You know, I hope that people are learning, as social media is influencing young families, that the village really does look like showing up to the house to fold some laundry and maybe not even hold a baby, and being okay with that and and, you know, exuding joy that you can still support a family and support a new
Marcus Thorpe 16:07
it's a great way to think about things. We knew this topic would be really popular with our listeners and our friends on social media, so we did get quite a few questions from our Ohio Health social media channels. Our first one is about breastfeeding, and we knew, Dr Tucker, you'd be a great person to talk about. This is my baby getting all the benefits, even though I can only pump instead of exclusively breastfeeding?
Dr Jessica Tucker 16:31
I think that's such a good question. And as a family medicine, Doc, I'm going to change the question a little bit, because, of course, we want to maximize benefits for baby, but we have to remember too that there are a lot of benefits to the parent who's breastfeeding when they're making milk. So breastfeeding reduces your risk of breast cancer, it reduces your risk of ovarian cancer, it reduces the risk of obesity and diabetes. And so there are a lot of benefits to the dyad, the mom and the baby. And so as we, as as you know, I identify as a mom. Want to be selfless, and I want to support my children with all that I am. They also have to have a mom who has a full cup and is taking care of herself. And so sometimes wellness doesn't look like getting your nails done or going to the salon. Sometimes wellness looks like making choices for yourself that reduce your risk down the road, things like going for a walk after dinner. You know, those are all choices that lead towards wellness, and breastfeeding is one of those things too. So from a from an infant standpoint, pumped milk is very good for the infant gut. Part of you know, milk banking is using extra pumped milk, whether that's from a mom who has extra milk, or that may be from a bereaved mom who's lost her child and continues to pump in order to honor the life of her child. Breast milk, I get chills talking about this really is something that goes kind of beyond just nutrition. You know, there's thinking about the legacy of a bereaved donor, I know, sharing their milk for a fragile NICU baby, fighting for their life.
Lindsay Gordon 18:34
It's just crazy to think about.
Dr Jessica Tucker 18:36
It's beautiful. You know, this work is love. It's it's
Lindsay Gordon 18:40
liquid gold. Yeah, I couldn't throw out my last frozen bag. For some reason, there was a frozen bag that was at the back of the freezer that we just somehow missed. And my daughter was, like, two at the time, and we found it cleaning out the freezer. I was like, I can't throw this out. I can't do it.
Dr Jessica Tucker 18:55
have you seen the jewelry? I have you seen those?
Lindsay Gordon 18:58
Yes, someone recommended that to me. I know, I know I just couldn't do it. I couldn't do it now I'm like that crazy mom that holds onto the teeth when Tooth Fairy comes. I know I don't like that. My teeth were saved, and now I'm the one saving the teeth, but here
Marcus Thorpe 19:11
cutting your daughter's hair and putting it someplace else so that she can have it 10 years from now
Lindsay Gordon 19:15
I know it's just so different when you think about because it's like the milk I produce, this milk. I worked so hard to make this milk. I didn't have a supply for the first kid, and I conquered every challenge for the second. And sure, Formula shortage is what motivated me to do that. But, you know, I wasn't going to have my baby not fed like I needed to do something. I was terrified. But we did get another great question, too, from social media.
Dr Jessica Tucker 19:38
I'll say two before you ask that question, you know you're talking about. You said something like, Fed is best earlier. And I say to families, you know, formula is, I don't know if I can say this on social I say formula is not the F word I love is an important tool we live in. In a world where we have safe drinking water and we need formula sometimes, and so as much as I encourage families to breastfeed and encourage the villages to support the breastfeeding families, sometimes it's just not going to happen. And no matter how much support we throw at that family, whether they have had post surgical reduction in their glandular tissue, or they have diabetes that influences their ability to make milk, or PCOS, or any of these things, sometimes an individual cannot make a full supply of breast milk. And so it's important to still talk about feeding our babies, because formula is important.
Marcus Thorpe 20:49
Yeah, first baby for us, Logan, breast fed. First year. No problem, everything. Second kid, Christian, allergic to breast milk. And so we were at a point where we're like, what the heck do we do? And yeah, we had to go to formula because it was really the only option at that point. And you know, there was some guilt for my wife. She was like, Oh, I don't feel like I'm doing what I need to do for this kid, like you found you had to transition off of that because he needed to eat. And the stuff that he was getting was working for him, even though it's smelled terrible, but it was just like, hey, he ate it up and he didn't care, and he's turned out great.
Dr Jessica Tucker 21:26
So it's a good it's a good thing that you bring up, because there's a lot of noise in the lactation world of what is true and what is not true. And I think the most important thing, you know, just thinking about a family who might worry about, you know, infant procto colitis or infant allergies, you know, there are a lot of components to breast milk, and I think, you know, a lot of Parents get really worried about their baby's symptoms, and kind of stop everything. You know, I'm gonna stop dairy and stop wheat and corn and shellfish, and you know, it's really important to kind of take a pause, find your provider who can take the time with you to understand story from pregnancy, story from birth, story from when symptoms began, and really take the time to put together the entire picture so that what you're bringing to the table gets tailored advice. Yeah? Because generic advice that's actually good is few and far between in all of medicine, but specifically in the lactation world, there are a lot of problems that truly need a really good history and a really good exam and Maybe even some lab tests to really understand what's going on and get the proper care.
Marcus Thorpe 23:05
Yeah, I think I share that story because I don't want people that don't breastfeed or can't breastfeed to feel like they failed or they're giving up. That's not the case, right? You've done what you can. You've done enough research your baby needs to eat, and that's okay.
Lindsay Gordon 23:19
Yeah, yeah. It's funny, because we usually keep these podcasts to about 20 minutes. We're already at 21 minutes, but I we gotta. I know I could talk forever about this, and I love this episode, so we'll definitely have you back. But before we start to kind of wrap up, I do want to get that other social media question in, because it's really important, and that is, what do you do if you think a loved one or a friend has postpartum depression?
Dr Jessica Tucker 23:43
It's such a good question. So there are a lot of answers to that question, and I'll try to put them together in a cohesive way. So I would want to make sure you know my first it's always a question back is, why do you think that that person is struggling? What does that look like? And making sure that you because, again, a lot of people come to the fourth trimester with a lot of big feelings, and just kind of like, make sure that when you come to the table with an individual who you're concerned about that your feelings are kind of left in checked so making sure that you're not perceiving texts, words, body language, facial expressions through the lens of your own emotions. You know, I think a lot of grandparents or aunties and uncles might receive communication in a different way, because parents are exhausted and tired and scared and stressed, and so is the village. And so I would want to just like first, you know, before. Were thinking any more about this, make sure that you kind of drop and check your own kind of filters with how you receive an individual who's in the fourth trimesters, kind of messages to you. And then the second thing is, kind of the severity you know, is this individual showing signs that they are an actively, actively a threat to themselves. You know, that's an emergency, and that requires emergency level care. So that's a 911 Hey, you know, this individual is really unwell. They're actively, you know, showing signs of self harm. And so that really would need escalated quickly in between that level of concern, we have a lot of resources in the United States and in Ohio. I think you're going to link some of those into the transcript of the podcast, but we have Postpartum Support International has a text line. There's another 24 hour text line for both parents and support individuals to say, Hey, I'm really worried about this, and they can reach out to have 24/7 support also. There's a 24/7 breastfeeding hotline as well. It's called the Appalachian breastfeeding network. And I we put that link in the transcript as well.
Lindsay Gordon 26:30
Yes, if you need it, though, the Crisis Text Line is Crisis Text line.org It's super easy to remember Crisis Text line.org figure. We say that one just in case someone's listening and needs it right away.
Dr Jessica Tucker 26:40
I don't know if you can pull up. I pull up. Can you pull up that? Because the Appalachian went into the crisis one of the crisis line, there's a, it's a six digit number.
Lindsay Gordon 26:49
Simply text home, yeah. 2741741, to reach a live volunteer crisis counselor. We are always here for you. Free, free, 24/7 confidential, yep.
Dr Jessica Tucker 27:02
So that's a great resource for real time, middle of the night, outreach in I think the last piece of the question is, you know, what do I do? Because you're not just going to, you know, reach out for help, separate from the individual. And so I think the most important thing is, you know, you've, you've really kind of considered where you're coming to, to that individual at another person. You've, you know, made sure that that's not an emergency situation, and now you're getting ready to confront or approach or lean in or support that individual, and the most important thing is just coming to a new, vulnerable person from a perspective of grace, and being able to lean in and say, hey, you know, objectively, you haven't been responding to texts, you haven't called me back, you haven't been going on walks like you used to. You used to do this thing, you know, every night, and you know you're not doing that. Are you okay? How can I help you? What support do you need? And sometimes they are not going to be able to think about what they need. And so being able to offer, Hey, can I, you know, can I take the kids for an hour, the older kids? Can I come do the dishes for you? Can I come fold a little laundry or put a little laundry away? And so just if you have concerns, be ready to to jump in and to act and and to support in a really tangible, helpful way.
Lindsay Gordon 28:39
Great advice.
Marcus Thorpe 28:40
This has been a great episode. I think it's one of those that, again, like Lindsay said, we could have you on multiple times, and hopefully we will, because I think there's a lot more ground to cover, but this has been really eye opening, I think Dr Tucker, so thank you so much for your passion and your expertise in this space. I know that it gives
Lindsay Gordon 28:59
It gives me so much hope. It does like you're paving new ground, and let's hope that the fourth trimester grows from here.
Marcus Thorpe 29:05
Yeah, thanks for joining us, and we thank you for joining us for this episode of the wellness conversation before we wrap up another note for our listeners, if there's health and wellness topics that you'd like us to cover, we certainly would love to hear from you can drop us a comment and also like and subscribe for this episode. It does help us get the word out to more listeners.
Lindsay Gordon 29:23
This episode transcript will also be available on the podcast page. So if you want to go back and check out those links or go back over any of the information we covered, you can find us at ohiohealth.com/the wellness conversation as always. Thanks for joining us.