The Reason the Seasons Mess with Your Mood
November 18, 2025 | Episode 51
Producer’s Note: The following is an AI-generated transcript of The Wellness Conversation, an OhioHealth Podcast
SPEAKERS: Lindsey Gordon, Marcus Thorpe, Dr Megan Schabbing
Marcus Thorpe 0:00
Welcome to the wellness conversation, an OhioHealth podcast. We know you love to hear about episodes focused on health wellness and living your best life. And we love when you comment on our pod, when you like it, when you rate it, so if you like what you're hearing now, we'd like for you to do it now. It allows others to hear about this podcast as well. I'm Marcus Thorpe
Lindsay Gordon 0:32
and I'm Lindsay Gordon, and today we're talking about something that affects so many people, especially this time of year, seasonal affective disorder, or sad as the seasons change, some of us notice shifts in mood, energy and motivation. Let's be real. Sometimes it can even lead to depression that disrupts our work relationships and daily lives.
Marcus Thorpe 0:52
And joining us today, a friend of the podcast, Dr Megan Schabbing who's been on before, psychiatrist and medical director of psychiatric emergency services with OhioHealth happening, helping people understand what sad looks like, why it happens, and what you can do to feel a little bit better. Dr Schabbing, it's good to see you. Thank s for joining us.
Dr Megan Schabbing 1:09
You too. Thanks for having me.
Lindsay Gordon 1:10
So let's talk about the level set. What is seasonal affective disorder, and when do you know that you need to get some help? Because I feel like I always when the days get shorter and it's darker, I have less motivation. I'm so tired, I just want to, like, be a hermit and go to bed. What should I be looking for to know when it's something more
Dr Megan Schabbing 1:33
So seasonal affective disorder is really a specific type of a mood disorder, and most commonly we think about depression, so that's what we'll talk about. Primarily. It's a type of mood disorder or a type of depression that occurs at certain times depending upon the season. So there's a seasonal component to it. The most common type is the sort of seasonal depression that we see in the winter months. What you're talking about when it's not so sunny, when the days are dark and much shorter in terms of any kind of exposure to sunlight, and a lot of people tend to develop depression during that time of the year.
Marcus Thorpe 2:09
What can that depression look like? You know, we all kind of have sometimes, I wouldn't say all of us, but some of us have the winter blues, right? We're kind of sick of the weather. We want a little bit of a change, but what we're talking about here is even a step beyond just the winter blues. This can sometimes really impact people's relationships or willingness to kind of, you know, do kind of their normal routine. Tell us what it looks like when it comes to some of this depression.
Dr Megan Schabbing 2:38
Yeah, you're exactly right. So the big difference between seasonal affective disorder and the winter blues is that with seasonal affective disorder, it really impairs your ability to function on some level. Now, what does that look like? Exactly? For some people, it's not being able to function at work. So maybe you can't even get up and make it to work in the morning. Or if you do, it's a real struggle. Maybe you're not performing as well at work. For younger people, it may be that you're struggling with concentrating and your studies and your grades start to drop, or it may be that you're just not able to enjoy time with your friends or families, or, you know, maybe you don't even feel like hanging out with your friends or family, and that's not typical for you. So really, the key is having that impairment and functioning in some way.
Lindsay Gordon 3:25
That makes sense. Do we know why this happens to maybe some people more than others, and why do the shorter days, less sunlight have such a big impact on our mood and health? Mental Health?
Dr Megan Schabbing 3:39
We know that. You know, just like with regular depression, seasonal affective disorder, there are people who are just sort of genetically wired in a certain way so that they're more likely to develop seasonal affective disorder. And then we believe, based on what we know, that when the days are shorter and there's less exposure to sunlight, that can be something that precipitates that underlying genetic potential and really turns it into a full blown disorder.
Lindsay Gordon 4:09
I've seen people, I'm sorry. I was just thinking about those happy lights.
Marcus Thorpe 4:15
I mean, we we have people in our office that pop on the happy lights, and you know, it's that time of the year.
Lindsay Gordon 4:21
I don't mean to laugh about it. I'm laughing that you and I thought at the same thing, yeah.
Marcus Thorpe 4:25
Probably thinking about the same people, but it's very interesting, because you'll see them, and I tell you what, I was a bit of a skeptic. And I was like, Oh, come on, does that really work? But then my wife was going through some of the same stuff, and she got one. And I was like, you're kind of skeptical. I don't know. And then I see a change. So let's talk about some of these light therapy options. I think we also need to put up a little bit of a disclaimer that you need to make sure that you're trying to talk with a physician through some of this stuff. Don't just go and figure out what you want to do on your own. There is kind of a science to. Figuring out what works best for people too, right?
Dr Megan Schabbing 5:01
Definitely. So first of all, when we're talking about seasonal affective disorder, specifically seasonal depression, where you have that onset of the depression in the winter months, when it's darker and you don't have as much sun exposure, absolutely, one of the treatments that's been shown to be evidence based is bright light therapy. Okay? Now that is a specific light that you use for a specific amount of time daily, typically in the morning, typically 30 to 60 minutes, and it's really the evidence based strategy would be the one that's prescribed by your physician. Okay, so that's really what studies have shown can can be effective in treating seasonal affective disorder, along with the other treatments that we use for regular depression, regardless of the onset throughout the year, which would be antidepressant treatment and specific types of therapy, particularly cognitive behavioral therapy, now separate from that for seasonal depression, it can also be helpful to have particular lifestyle modifications, For instance, increasing the amount of lighting in your home. But those are two different things. The bright light therapy as an actual treatment for seasonal affective disorder seasonal depression is it really needs to be the right device with the right type of light at the right frequency, prescribed by a physician, used daily in the morning, 30 to 60 minutes.
Marcus Thorpe 6:20
Okay, is part of this, even beyond, you know, the light therapy is a big part of what we're talking about now, but because we're forced inside, because we're not doing those kind of things, do you really encourage people to start Look, don't allow yourself not to at least go to a gym and go walk around a track or something like that, because we become kind of this sit around lifestyle and this kind of time of the year in central Ohio. Look, it's dingy and dark and gray and depressing. I know it can be. You got to kind of push yourself sometimes to get out of the house and do those things. It's so easy just to sit on the couch and not engage in your regular routines. This time of the year, isn't it?
Dr Megan Schabbing 7:01
Definitely so these are a couple of things that I recommend, whether it's my friends asking me about this or my patients. So number one, if you're somebody that tends to have seasonal affective disorder, even just the winter blues, ideally, first and foremost, try to get up in the morning and start your day with some type of exercise. In a perfect world, try to make that be outside, even if it's cold out, bundle up, go outside and take a walk. Now I'm this is somebody this coming from somebody who runs every single morning, no matter what time of year, it is okay. So I get it, and my friends will say to me and even my patients, not everybody likes to get up in the morning. Not everybody is a morning person. So if you can't do that, and that's just not an option for you, then the next best thing, I would say, if you have a job that you have to go to every day, or if you're working from home at the end of your shift, or at the end of your work, go and do some type of exercise. So let's say you drive to work every day, pack a bag, have it in your trunk, and right after work, don't go home to the couch as soon as you do that, especially when it's dark, and particularly at that time of year. And if you don't have a lot of light in your home, you're gonna go home and you're gonna get on the couch, and it's gonna be hard to get up off the couch. You're done. At that point, you're done. So pack your bag. Have a game plan. Now, there are lots of different ways that you could do this. Okay? You could take your bag, go to a park and just walk around. You could go to a gym. You could find a fun exercise class there. It can be whatever works best for you, and not everybody's the same. Mix it up. Try different things with your you know, co workers or your friends, but you have to try to do something. So I say, either get up and do some exercise in the morning or do it right after work. But you have to have a game plan, and you really have to be deliberate about it, otherwise it snowballs in the wrong direction and you get tired and you get less motivated.
Marcus Thorpe 8:50
Sometimes even small bursts make a big difference. It doesn't have to be the two hour workout or an hour and a half, like let's do 15-20 minutes to get kind of the blood flowing and you feeling a little bit better about things and then work your way up. I'm saying that trying to convince myself that this is what I need to do,
Dr Megan Schabbing 9:05
Exactly.
Lindsay Gordon 9:06
So true. And we've talked about this on other podcast episodes too, about like, yeah, continuous movement throughout the day, right? If you're able to do that, right? There's a benefit to that, too. What I think is so amazing is you're practicing what you preach, right? Like you're getting up, you're exercising, rain or shine, nearly every day. What? How long have you been running that early in the morning? And how long have you been doing that? And why did you start doing that?
Dr Megan Schabbing 9:29
I mean, it's been a few years now where I've been really, really consistent, and I've always done some type of exercise in the morning, at least ever since I've been doing this job. So as you can imagine, every day I am meeting people where they are oftentimes in their worst moment, the worst moment of their lives, and people are really struggling. And for me, personally, I have to be really thoughtful and deliberate about my coping strategies for stress, because that's a lot of you know, stress, potentially absorbing other people's problems and trying. To be really present for them throughout the day as a part of my everyday job. So the way I think of it, and what I've always done is I have to do something first thing in the morning to clear my head out, to take care of myself. It's kind of that self care concept, so that I can clear my brain out of all other things and be totally ready and available for my team at the hospital, but most importantly, for my patients, that's what works for me. Now, that being said, I know that that's not maybe something that works for everybody else. And like I said, not everybody's a morning person. So you know, I have to emphasize it's really on an individual basis, what you decide to do in terms of taking care of yourself and coping strategies. It's just important that you do something and that you figure out what works for you and make that a part of your daily routine.
Lindsay Gordon 10:46
I've seen, we've talked about it too on the podcast, the weighted vest, right? Like the walking with a weighted vest. And we've, we've had the experts on and confirmed that it's, it's worth your your time and your investment, and, yeah, just walking. And I feel like, yeah, it doesn't have to be a run every morning. Doesn't have to be a spin class or CrossFit or whatever. It could just be a walk, like, not, I hate to say even just it's, it's, you could get on and walk, you know, just that movement. What I think is so fascinating is there's such a connection between movement, physical movement, and our mental well being. What do you there's still got to be gaps in that research, and is there anything that you wish we knew more about with that?
Dr Megan Schabbing 11:26
Yeah, I think it'd be really interesting to understand better why different people's brains respond in different ways. And like, for instance, why is it harder for some people to even get going with exercise? You know, what is it that the wiring in the brain is making so challenging? Because I think it'd be great if, you know, more people just naturally felt like they had the energy to go and do exercise and to do other things that are going to be a win win for your mental and your physical health, you know? So it's a lot of what we think about in psychiatry, with which medication is going to work for which person's brain? I just look forward to the day where we understand better all of the neural networks in the brain and how each person's brain is different, so that we can better help them quickly, rather than having to try different strategies for different people.
Marcus Thorpe 12:16
That would be neat, and you'd make a lot of money if you could figure some of that out too some personalized care. You know, we're moving through the holiday season, and I know that seasonal affective disorder is kind of a narrow subject, but one thing that I think a lot of people feel this time of the year is just stress, expectations, loneliness, that holidays can sometimes present. Can you walk us through some ways that some of this can present when it comes to this time of the year, like, you know, in your work, you're, you said you're dealing with a lot of people kind of at their worst when they've, they've had a really rough run of things, and they need some help. What is it about this time of year that helps present sometimes the worst in folks when it comes to their own mental health and stress.
Dr Megan Schabbing 13:02
Well, it's interesting, because I think many people think of the holidays as such a great time, and they associate the holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, that time of year, with positive feelings, positive memories. And the reality is, for many people, the holiday season brings back pain, painful memories. For some people, it may be a reminder of all the people they've lost, or it may be a reminder of what they don't have in terms of social support. And so it can be a really lonely time for a lot of people, and we see people coming into the emergency department who are really struggling at that time of year because of that holiday component. And a lot of it comes down to really being isolated socially and being lonely. So it's something to think about, because whereas you may be somebody that really enjoys the holidays, you know, I think it's important to reach out to people around you, especially people that may be isolated, whether it's a neighbor, a co worker, you know, appreciate those warning signs you might be seeing in people, if they seem a little more withdrawn, or they seem just more sad or less engaged, and reach out and check on them.
Lindsay Gordon 14:10
I feel like we talked about this with Dr Spondyl too, about the power of connection. You were mentioning reaching out and connecting, but really just having that connection with somebody a phone call. You know, checking in, meeting for coffee, meeting for lunch or just something to be social can be so empowering, and it could change your whole day. He mentioned that on his episode about that, what advice do you have for those people who are feeling those feelings of isolation this time of year.
Dr Megan Schabbing 14:42
So first of all, please reach out to somebody you know that the first thing we want to find out is, is there something going on that we would need to treat, that that would need to be fixed, you know, like a medical problem? You know, sometimes people feel down, and there's actually a non mental health issue going on some. With your thyroid or other types of medical issues that are absolutely fixable problems that you would need to reach out to your doc and get evaluated, and then we can provide treatment. But for other people, you know, I think it's important to take that step of reaching out and talking to somebody, so that may just be the very most basic reaching out to a friend or family member or just anybody that you feel comfortable talking about. If you're feeling isolated, sometimes, just getting things off your chest can make you feel better. You know it's just taking that step and knowing that whatever you're struggling with, these are fixable problems, and if it ends up being something like depression or anxiety, it's not any different than having diabetes. Go see your doctor. Your doctor is going to do a workup and figure out what the problem is and get you the right kind of help. So I just want people to know that if you're struggling, you can feel better, and you will feel better, even if in the moment it doesn't seem like that there is help, and we want to help you.
Marcus Thorpe 16:02
Could you pull back the curtain a little bit? Because I think a lot of people, and maybe this is like old school way of thinking, but I know a lot of people are scared to come and talk to somebody from a mental health perspective, because they're worried they're going to have to go on medicine, and they want to stay away from some of those kind of medicines that maybe have gotten a bad rap over the years. Right when, when you or your teams in the behavioral health space meet with someone, what does it look like like? What does it look like when somebody sits down? What are the routes that you would suggest that people can take MediCal medication? Might be the right answer, but it's not for everyone. Sometimes it's maybe some other avenues. What does it look like when somebody comes and presents?
Dr Megan Schabbing 16:42
Yeah, you're right. So you know, first and foremost, somebody comes in and they have any kind of a mental health problem or anything that's going on that they're struggling with, and let's say they come into our emergency department, for instance, where I work, the first thing we do is, you don't see a psychiatrist or a psych social worker. You see an emergency medicine provider, whether that's the physician the mid level, which we call in, you know, nurse practitioner, or a physician assistant. And the first thing we want to do is make sure that there aren't any non psychiatric medical problems going on. So that's kind of the first step. And then then you talk to a mental health professional, like a psychiatric social worker, and we really do a very in depth discussion. It's just an interview. You know, we're definitely not jumping the gun and trying to get a bunch of people on psychiatric medications, right? The first thing we want to do is understand what's going on with you. And guess what? Most people have more than one issue going on, and we really try to do a great job of digging in and peeling back the layers and understanding all the different pieces to your puzzle, because for many people, yes, there may be some depression going on that we want to identify and treat, but there may be some social stressors going on, like financial problems or relationship problems or problems at work. And so it's really all of these different pieces that we want to identify, and we want to come up with a comprehensive game plan with you. This is a collaborative situation, you know, so I don't want people to think you're going to come in and we're just going to give you a diagnosis and give you a bottle of pills and send you on your way. That's really not how it happens. We really want to understand everything that's going on with you, understand if there are any disorders going on that need treatment, develop a treatment plan for that. But a lot of what we're doing is talking, understanding and then providing various treatment options. And you're right, not every single type of mental health problem is going to require medication as the treatment. We certainly have various types of therapy, for instance, talk therapy, but specific modalities of therapy that are extremely evidence based in terms of treating some of these disorders, especially anxiety disorders. Now if you have more of a moderate to severe situation, whether it be anxiety or depression, yes, likely you will require medication at some point. And again, that will be a discussion. There are various options. We'll talk you through the benefits and the risks of the various treatment options, and together come up with a plan
Marcus Thorpe 19:05
And a ramp up. It's not like we're going to start you at this huge number of milligrams. There's a ramp up when it comes to this to see where you are, and it's putting that puzzle together, I think, which is really important for people to understand when it comes to their own mental health.
Lindsay Gordon 19:19
I think for women too, one of the themes we've uncovered from doing women's health focused podcast episodes is that there are a lot of women who feel like they aren't heard, they aren't seen, especially in the healthcare setting, and when it comes to anxiety and depression. I know I've moved around the country many times because of my former career. So I've had, you know, exposure to different doctors, different healthcare systems, and I remember talking about my anxiety, and I'm talking years ago, and there was always like, well, try, have you tried talk therapy first? Have you tried talk therapy? And I did. It just wasn't working for me. And I say that to say that was a situation where I felt on. Heard I did not feel seen and and I did actually end up sharing my story with when I was very much felt seen and got help from Dr Elizabeth kofler. What one of my prenatal appointments when she was my OB GYN, and she kind of shifted gears. It was the managing the mental load of a mom episode. We got into that. But I say all that to say, Have we made progress in this space? And what can we do? What can women do when they're at these appointments, to make sure that they're advocating for themselves and asking the right questions of their provider?
Dr Megan Schabbing 20:33
So one thing that I think can be really helpful, and this really applies to anybody, but particularly in this women's health space, like you said you have to be an advocate. I think you kind of want to prepare for an appointment more than you'd really think about. Jot down some questions, you know, whatever you've been thinking about, and kind of organize your thoughts before you go in. Either put it, I know a lot of people like to do that on their phone. I'm old school. I use paper, so I would write it in a little journal, or, like, on a little pad of paper, and just kind of think through what your goals are of the visit, and sort of what your biggest problem is that you would like assistance with, or, you know, your various problems, and that will be really helpful, because a lot of times, providers are limited in terms of, you know, the time that they have with each patient, and so the more efficient you can be, you know, that way you make sure that Your concerns are heard and that your questions are answered, and you can even send a message ahead of time, like these are some questions I want to make sure that we address before the appointments over you know that's a small strategy that you can use that will, I think, help you get a lot more of what you need out of the appointment, and will help you know that you're advocating for yourself.
Marcus Thorpe 21:39
Yeah, I think it's easy to walk in and sometimes go blank about what you were going to talk about, and before you know it, it's like, okay, I'm out of the room, and I didn't ask anything that I really wanted, and did I really get what I wanted? And sometimes it's my fault, because I didn't prepare myself for the conversation that I wanted to have, too. So I think that's really good advice as we leave this conversation. Dr shabbing, is there anything that I've heard you say before that we've got to start treating mental health the way we take care of our physical health because they are one in the same. I don't know if you could kind of drive home that point, but if there's anything else you want our listeners to really take when it comes to their own mental well being, what would it be?
Dr Megan Schabbing 22:17
Well, you're absolutely right, and this is what I tell my patients all the time, if you are struggling with any kind of a mental health issue, whether it's depression, anxiety or anything else, because there are so many other kinds of mental health issues that people experience, don't be embarrassed. Don't be ashamed. It literally is a brain problem. In many ways. It's like if you had a neurologic problem, you're having a stroke, a seizure, some kind of infection in your brain, having a mental health issue, absolutely is a matter of part of your brain not working right. And so yes, we all need to start thinking about it that way, so that just like with any other medical problem, you would naturally go to a physician request assistance, help, you know, get help with a treatment plan, and then you'd follow through with that treatment plan, and you would never think twice about it. I think, like we talked about earlier, the idea of being deliberate with self care is so important, and you just have to find a way to figure out what works for you in terms of managing stress, because there's going to be stress for everybody at all times throughout the year. You know some times of the year going to be worse than others, and you have to figure out what works for you best, and you have to be deliberate every single day to use those positive coping strategies, whatever they may be, exercise, meditation, yoga, talking on the phone to a friend, reaching out to a family member, taking a walk, you know, listening to music, whatever it is I tell my patients, I want you to find your happy place. So it really think about what, who are the people that make you happy? What are the activities that make you happy? Where are you when you feel happy and go to that place, right? More often, especially when you're having a rough time.
Marcus Thorpe 24:04
I love it, the Happy Gilmore strategy, right?
Lindsay Gordon 24:06
Literally, just read my mind. It's a great movie, not not an ad, but great movie. The second one's out now, yes, it's hysterical I was belly laughing.
Marcus Thorpe 24:16
This has been a great conversation. We really appreciate you coming back to the wellness conversation. We know this will not be your last trip here, because we know that behavioral health and mental health is something that is always evolving, and things we always need advice on. So thanks for your time. We appreciate it.
Dr Megan Schabbing 24:31
Thanks for having me.
Marcus Thorpe 24:32
And if you'd like to learn more about the things we talked about, seasonal affective disorder, or would you like to connect with a mental health expert, you can find all that@ohiohealth.com if you enjoyed this episode, and we know you did, you can share it and subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes.
Lindsay Gordon 24:46
And before we wrap up, one note for our listeners, if there's a health and wellness topic that you would like us to cover, maybe you just have a question, we really would love to hear from you. So drop us a comment. Also, like and subscribe. Share the podcast. It helps us. Get the word out to more listeners.
Marcus Thorpe 25:01
This episode transcript will also be available on our podcast page. If there's information you'd like to go back and read about. You can find that also at ohiohealth.com/the wellness conversation as always, thanks for joining us.