Women Rising: Celebrating Achievements, Confronting Challenges, and Building Unity
March 11, 2025 | Episode 34
Producer’s Note: The following is an AI-generated transcript of The Wellness Conversation, an OhioHealth Podcast
SPEAKERS: Marcus Thorpe, Lindsey Gordon, Cynthia Latney, Nanette Lacuesta, MD
Lindsey Gordon 00:14
Who is the most influential woman in your life? How has she lifted you up, and what did it take for her to get where she is now? From health care to the workforce to the home, women are charting their own course and crushing it. Thanks for joining the Wellness Conversation an OhioHealth Podcast. I'm Lindsay Gordon.
Marcus Thorpe 00:32
And I'm Marcus Thorpe. March is a time for International Women's Day, time to recognize women's achievements, highlight challenges and promote unity and solidarity. But even more than that, it's a time to recognize how it can all close the gaps and guarantee more challenges in healthcare can be solved and much more beyond too. We're happy to be joined by Dr. Nanette Lacuesta, program director of the OhioHealth physician diversity initiatives, and Cynthia Latney, who is the OhioHealth Senior Vice President and Chief Nursing executive. Thank you both for being here on the podcast. We're really excited about having you.
Cynthia Latney 01:04
Well thank you for having us
Nanette Lacuesta, MD 01:06
Glad to be here.
Lindsey Gordon 01:07
I was really excited for this episode to learn more about how you got here and your journeys. So Cynthia, let's start with you talk to us about how you were able to get into this leadership role here at OhioHealth and where it all started for you?
Cynthia Latney 01:23
Oh gosh, where it all started? I would say my parents. I grew up in a servant’s household, so my mom was a nurse over 50 years, and my father was an educator, and it's all about serving others, and so I really follow my mom's footsteps into nursing. And so it's a long journey. This is my 38th year of practice. And it has been really a calling for me. And my journey has been long for 38 years, coming from Texas through Philadelphia through Colorado to the door knocking saying, hey, Cynthia, you want to come to OhioHealth, and it's been a great, great partnership.
Marcus Thorpe 02:12
Leading a great group of nurses throughout the system too. Dr. Lacuesta, your father a physician too. So something very similar to the path that you took, but I'm curious how you made that choice. Sometimes people who have physicians as parents don't go that route. Why was that the route for you that you said, no, I'm going to follow in my dad's footsteps.
Nanette Lacuesta, MD 02:31
Well, you know, I always tell people that, you know, if my father had shown the same joy for his job, if he was doing something else, I probably would have, would have done that, you know, if he'd been a plumber, if you'd been a teacher, I may, may have also followed in his footsteps that way. But luckily for me, I had a great example, somebody within my home who is an excellent, you know, role model, and showed me that it was possible to become a physician. I have an older sister who's also a family physician, and my mom is actually a nurse. And you know, I think that being in a family of healthcare workers really helped shape my view of, you know what it means to care for others and to live a life of you know, leading through service,
Lindsey Gordon 03:20
Cynthia in your nearly 40 years of practice, rounding up a little bit. But I mean to really put that number out there that, you know, it's crazy to think about. We're talking about International Women's Day, and we're talking about women who, however they define success in their life, right? It could be committing to, you know, your family. It could be committing to balancing both work and family, committing to your career. How have you seen in that time, in 40 years, that evolve in that time? Has it evolved?
Cynthia Latney 03:50
Well, if I look at my mom when she was practicing and she started in the 50s, and what she needed to navigate, coming from a large city and going to a small town, it really was about, you know, service, but how she had to show up, from my mother, my grandmother, it was all about education and always showing up early, leaving late, being the best that you can be. And I think that was a journey back then, but looking at where I am today and saying it truly does start with education, but having the competencies, having the mentors that's around you, having your village, that's really what gives us the foundation to move from then to now, but it's always still, still a challenge. I must say.
Marcus Thorpe 04:50
I think about how much we've evolved as a society when it comes to, you know, women in leadership roles and running household. Olds and doing so many things from so many different perspectives. How do you make that choice as a strong woman in your careers? And Dr. Lacuesta, we'll start with you, right? You have to make that decision. Am I starting a career? Am I raising a family? Am I doing both? How do I navigate that with my partner, do I sunset a career and maybe go back at some point, which I think a lot of people do, maybe in the nursing space specifically, how did you navigate all of those choices that you had to make? Because I know you have kids and you have a really demanding career, too.
Nanette Lacuesta, MD 05:34
Yeah, I have a 15 year old daughter and an 11 year old son, and I feel very blessed that I also have a partner who also works full time. But I think that the thing that makes it work for us is that we're really great at being partners. We don't have designated roles. As far as you know. I think maybe in past generations, like the woman was more associated with doing most of the household duties. And I think that a lot of that has shifted over the years. And I can, I can honestly say that my husband, not only does his share, probably more of it, and he's better at it than I am. So, yeah, I think, I think that that's one of the things that's really shifted. And, you know, the other thing is that I know that sometimes you feel like you have to make a decision about doing one or the other, but sometimes, you know, things happen at the same time. And one of the things that I've come to realize, and I've also talked to other mentees about, is that, you know, life happens now. It doesn't wait until after you're done training. It doesn't wait until after you've reached a certain point of your career. It doesn't wait. It doesn't wait for anything. Life will continue to happen. So really, we have to be intentional about making sure that we, you know, continue to live our lives. And I know it used to be balanced, but now I think it's more like work life integration.
Marcus Thorpe 06:59
Yeah, Cynthia, I know just even booking you for this podcast, your schedule is something else. So how do you decide, okay, I'm at a point in my life or a point in my career where I can take on this really extra work and extra thing and be a leader and a person to so many which you have to be in your personal life too.
Cynthia Latney 07:23
I see my work as an art and a craft, right? And that's the joy that feeds me. So I think it starts there, but then you also have to set boundaries and priorities. You know? I have grown kids, so I get to just make those decisions of the priorities of when I'm going to spend time with my family, but my life is my work, but it does bring me joy, but I also have to know that self-care is really important, and to be ready for everyone else, self-care and your mental health has to take priority, because if you're not there mentally, you can't be there for your team.
Marcus Thorpe 08:09
It's great point. Yeah, it's a great point.
Nanette Lacuesta, MD 08:11
You know, something that Cynthia was mentioning really resonated with me when you're talking about prioritization. I was just talking to a group of women about this the other day, and I think that it's really important for us when you are when you're a leader, any kind of leader, or when you're working and you have a career that you really focus on the things that only you can do as your priorities. Think, okay, what is it that requires me? It requires my skill set and my time in my energy, and then some of the other things that maybe you can do, but you don't have to, you have to consider outsourcing some of those tasks or perhaps gifting those opportunities to other people. And I think that's also part of the leadership journey, right? So early on in your careers, or at least in my career, I felt like early on, I really wanted to show my competency, as Cynthia had mentioned, competency, building that gaining confidence and demonstrating that I could be a team player. And then later on, I think that the journey really evolves into curating your craft, curating your experiences, curating your council of queens and kings and kings, we need the kings too, to get on board saying, yes, we need, we need the kings in order to build that confidence and curate that brand of who you are as a leader. And then I think later on, you start thinking about, you know, what is my legacy? What is it that I want people to remember me by? Who is it that I can start to sponsor in order to have somebody moving into the next role, you know, looking ahead, giving of yourself. So those are just some of the things that you know, really resonated with me that Cynthia was mentioning. Which he talked about prioritization.
Lindsey Gordon 10:02
What's so interesting about that last point is the pipeline for physicians is so and providers is so needed right now. And so to know that there's room at the top right, you're you. There's enough room you get up there and there's room to pull others up there with you. And how are you going to get others in the pipeline and inspire them? Is the fact that that's important to you, I think speaks volumes, because the work doesn't end here, right? We're paving the way for the next generation. I'd love for you to describe a time where either you had this extreme pull in all directions from everyone who needed you at once, whether it was home, life and work at once, and how you navigated that, or just a time where you had to overcome a challenge to get to where you are today, something that you thought, Gosh, I really can't problem solve this one right away. Is there a time that you can think of to maybe share that would would help a listener, maybe going through something similar.
Cynthia Latney 11:04
I think there's a time in my career that I always go back to and I share when I am coaching other women, because I think all women hit what we call the glass ceiling. And I recall that when I was at an organization for probably 18 years, and I said, I've done all I can do in this organization. I try to be diverse. I try to lead in so many different ways I need to go. And that was where I had to really do a mind shift with myself to say, what is it that I can control? What can I lean to my mentors and coaches to help me ask a question of value, and what is it that I need for myself? And that is sometimes a hard thing to do for an individual and in particular woman to do to say, I may need to leave an organization to find my joy and continue to grow, and that is a personal journey that you have to go on. Not to say to all my leaders out here in OhioHealth, I want them to be here for their career and their journey, but it's important for you to go through that, I guess, checklist, to say, How am I giving value to the organization, and how am I giving value to myself? To make those decision, and I think once I made that decision, to say I know what I can control and who I can partner with, and when I stepped out of that organization, is when I would say my career started to move forward, where I felt like I started to drive and it wasn't people doing things to me, it was it was in partnership and where I wanted to go.
Nanette Lacuesta, MD 13:00
I think of a time when I had some physical challenges with my health. So when I was an intern, I'm a family medicine physician, and when I was, when I was a first year resident, I was pregnant with my first child, and I was sick with a capital S. I was sick every day. I had hyperemesis, and I was, I was just sick every single day, and it was during that time that I had to learn to be vulnerable and talk to people about my limitations and ask for help. And so, you know, I had, I had to, you know, go to my program director. I had to talk to my peers. I had to, you know, talk to some of my attending physicians, who, who I was working with at the time, to share with them things that I really didn't. I didn't really want to, but I had to, because I had a physical limitation that was keeping me from doing my optimal work. And so I think that, you know, learning that lesson of having to be vulnerable when you have a limitation, asking for help and grace, I think that that was a really valuable lesson for me.
Lindsey Gordon 14:16
And asking for help is a sign of strength, right? It's not a sign of weakness, which I think so many people think, Oh, if I'm asking for help, it means I can't do the job. But really, if you're asking for help, it shows you know your limitations and your boundaries. And I just, I resonate with that absolutely, completely.
Marcus Thorpe 14:34
I think about pay gaps, something that we've talked about for so long, and something that really needs to be closed. We saw the WNBA this year, with Caitlin Clark last year, coming out and saying, women should be flying in better planes and first class and chartered flights, and we shouldn't be riding coach. I think about the healthcare field when I first got to OhioHealth, Dr. Janet Bay, who's the former Vice President. Of neuroscience, a brain surgeon, one of the first in the field, and what she likely went through her entire career before she finally felt like, okay, I'm recognized by my peers as somebody who can and belongs in this field. I'm curious about how you all see pay gaps and skyrocketing your career where you're not feeling like you're stuck or leveled out just because you're a woman. Could you talk about that and kind of what you've seen in your careers?
Cynthia Latney 15:29
I'm not sure. I know we've made progress in that area, some progress, but as women, I no one read that. We still make less than probably 80 cents on $1 and women of color makes less than that. And so as I have moved through my career, yes, I think gaining that increase has helped financially for my household, I still believe, and probably know if we ever would do kind of an audit, that we're still not where we need to be more so I think men particularly will ask for raise and have that discussion, and although they may not have all the competencies, they have the confidence of saying, I think we should be paid. We're women, and I can see myself through the various I mean, I went through so many different health systems and had to have the opportunity to negotiate early on, I was a novice. I didn't know I was doing. I was I was excited to get to the next level, right? Just give it to me today it's through my mentors and coaches is saying, wait a second. You never take the first offer, and you really start to do your homework, and you come with $1 amount in your mind, right? And so we still got a long way to go.
Marcus Thorpe 17:01
We do. And the conversation, I think, is so important to be having to keep it out there, to talk about it. And again, this is not closing the pay gap, just to close it. This is a competency thing, like we have competent women in every field, in every position, that deserve to be paid like a man because they can do just a good job, if not better than men in certain positions. And I think that this is a conversation that if it, if it gets loud enough, people really need to start paying attention to it.
Nanette Lacuesta, MD 17:36
Well, I'll give slightly different perspective. So my lens is within graduate medical education and new physicians. So one of the things that I'm really proud of about OhioHealth is that I know that there's just like a standardized kind of pay scale for new physicians, that despite gender, other things, that is standardized. And I really am proud of the work that Chris Borasz and his team have done physician recruiting to ensure that there is equity in in the pay of new physicians. I know that nationally, that's not true, as Cynthia mentioned, it's 80 or 82, cents on the dollar that women in general are making across all of their fields. And there is a study that I reference when I talk about implicit bias mitigation, because I'm a trainer for that. But there is a study by Anthony Sasso in the Journal of Health Affairs from 2011 that indicated that new physicians in the study in general had a pay gap of $17,000 for new physicians between men and women. And then they repeated the study years later, I think it was maybe 2017 they repeated the study. And you would think that after the first one came out, in all of this discussion about gender pay gap equity that needed to be done, all the reform that needed to be done, you think it would improve, but it actually worsened. I think it was around it was just over $20,000 that the gap increased. So you are right, Cynthia, there's a lot of work to do, but I am, I am proud that at least within new physicians at OhioHealth, that we're doing the right things.
Cynthia Latney 19:16
I think I should add when you looking at how physicians are doing it, and how, you know, our OhioHealth on the associate side is there's, there's consistency and standard, right? And being a leader and being part of those compensation opportunities, I think that's where, yes, we have a standard, but there's an opportunity to see the value that that we bring, that each individual brings as well, plays a part in our pay.
Lindsey Gordon 19:47
I think we're talking here about, you know, having confidence, advocating for yourself, speaking up, having those conversations. All those things can also apply to a patient who is at OhioHealth. We talked about, you know. Working and leadership. But on the patient side of things, women, especially, are the healthcare decision makers for the family. I mean, think about the dentist appointments, the primary care, the pediatrician, the, you know, whatever the list goes on and on. I literally just took a photo of my son's head yesterday because he's got, he's like, sick with the fever, and he's laying down, and I noticed this mark on his, like, scalp that I hadn't seen before. So I'm like, okay, document that now. It's like, on my to do list, you know, get him in the pediatrician, to get this mold checked out. But I say all that to say, how can women be better at being heard and, you know, and, and feeling listened to when as a patient, right and advocating for your family, advocating for yourself, what advice do you have for them on the patient side of things?
Cynthia Latney 20:52
a good question. I actually got a text from my son this morning, and he was asking me what physician to select and he lives in New Jersey. And so, you know, I really think that women really is a fuel to health care, and we need to listen to what our women are saying, because they are making choices of where they want to get care delivered, but we got to stand in our power and trust that what we're saying about ourselves, of our own health care and our family members, and use that to make choices here at OhioHealth, we need to continue to get more insights so we are delivering what our consumers and our women are asking for. I think that helps us as an organization, but I think it also will help us as a community, if we start to ask them what they need.
Nanette Lacuesta, MD 22:03
I think I'll go back to you know, the importance of mitigating our implicit biases when we are talking about the issue of women not being heard or believed. I think that as a health care organization, if leaders clinicians, if we can understand that implicit bias is real and harms others, if we can mitigate some of those biases and understand that, you know, there is a bias of women being associated with home and not necessarily with career. And so I think that if we in from a leadership standpoint, we start to mitigate those biases, we may open up opportunities for more women. And then, from a patient care standpoint, I think the biggest issue is with not being heard, is maybe not speaking up, or maybe not elevating those concerns to the right people, or maybe not, rallying our, you know, our allies in order to be heard. And then another way that I think that women can impact health care, as far as being heard and impacting their families, I'll put a plug in there, also for family medicine. So, you know, family doctors, they take care of men, women, children, and when you have the ability to go see your physician, but also bring your parent or also bring your children all in the same visit, I think that that is really great for healthcare and family medicine. Primary Care is the right thing at the right time for most people.
Marcus Thorpe 23:39
I have one more question before we wrap up. This has been an awesome conversation, and I knew you two would be the perfect group to be talking about all of these issues. So first off, just thank you for being just amazing leaders and women in your own right. But I have a selfish question, obviously a man. So could you? Could you shed some light for kind of our male listeners of how we can be better allies, supporters, helping the cause, pushing the agendas of women equality and strength and power. What can we do as men to support and be better allies in this fight?
Cynthia Latney 24:19
You know, I love that question. I think it's very timely, because here at OhioHealth, we are doing work around gender, right and how we see each other, and as we get strong on the women and the men's side, how powerful that can be for the organization, I would say for my men in the world, just listen to me for one right to really be open and curious ask more questions than judgment would be helpful. Be my ally and watchout for me when I have ideas that are coming to the table, I think is very helpful. And I think as healthcare help us be allies for not only women, but for our girls and our lives, right? Yeah, the next generation, the next generation.
Marcus Thorpe 25:21
All right. Dr. Lacuesta, how can I be a better supporter, ally, friend, those things?
Nanette Lacuesta, MD 25:28
I think that one is through amplification, and through sponsorship is the second thing. So what do I mean by amplification? So if you are in a meeting with another woman leader, and the woman leader says something, and then it kind of gets lost in the shuffle. And then two comments later, somebody else mentioned something very similar to the woman that said something two comments before, it would be very helpful for our council of kings to speak up. Speak up at that moment. Say, You know what? That is, a really great point that you made that's amplifying what Cynthia just said earlier. You know, making sure that those contributions by women in the room are being amplified and being very intentional about it. Another way is to, you know, amplify titles. You know, I don't know how many times I've been in a meeting and I've been referred to as Nanette when you know, the person next to me is referred to as, you know, doctor, male person you know. And so where the man next to me is referred to as Doctor so, you know, pointing out, even on the agendas, like who's listed there, sometimes you may catch it, you know, and pointing those, pointing out those discrepancies, is important. And then also, through sponsorship, it's different than mentorship. Sponsorship indicates that you've really dedicated, that you are going to look out for opportunities for that woman that you believe has potential in a leadership space, looking out for those opportunities, vouching for them and placing them in the way to be successful.
Marcus Thorpe 27:15
I have a bunch of amazingly strong women on the media relations team. There's only two men in our group and about nine women. So I'm constantly amazed by our group and the leadership and the care and support that those women have. So I have a lot of practice in watching that at work, and so I'm going to do my best to including Lindsay, who's on the team.
Lindsey Gordon 27:39
And you do you already demonstrate that sponsorship because of the nature of our team, right? But our team is very close, and you do handle, you do work with our interns who come in and you, you help them and support them. And through my journey of onboarding at OhioHealth, you've helped me, and even putting on this podcast, you've been a great teammate.
Marcus Thorpe 27:58
I just like being called a king. So I appreciate that. That felt really good.
Cynthia Latney 28:03
Thank you for asking the question, yeah, most men don't, so keep leaning in.
Marcus Thorpe 28:10
I want to be an ally. I want to be a supporter, too. Again. Thank you both so much for this conversation. I wish we had a little bit more time, but we hope to have you back and we'll see where we are, maybe in six months to a year, and give some updates on how we're doing. So thank you both for joining us. Well, thank you for having us, and we like to thank you for joining us for this episode of the Wellness Conversation an OhioHealth podcast. Before we wrap up, we do invite you to follow us on all major social channels, making sure you stay up to date on any new episodes, as well as other health and wellness topics. If you're looking for more information on OhioHealth services and locations, you can find it at ohiohealth.com.
Lindsey Gordon 28:47
The information in this episode will also be available on the podcast page, and be sure to subscribe to join the conversation. One final note before we say goodbye, we are just getting started. Reviews and ratings help us keep the conversation going with you, and they allow others to find us and join the conversation too. As always, thank you for joining us.