The Heart Healthy Family
February 25, 2025 | Episode 33
Producer’s Note: The following is an AI-generated transcript of The Wellness Conversation, an OhioHealth Podcast
SPEAKERS: Lindsey Gordon, Marcus Thorpe, Dr. Hatanelas, Jerod Smalley
Lindsey Gordon 00:00
How good are you to your heart? We know that February is Heart Month, but how can you set yourself and your family on the right journey to heart health year-round? Welcome to the Wellness Conversation an OhioHealth Podcast. I'm Lindsay Gordon.
Marcus Thorpe 00:26
I'm Marcus Thorpe. Some of us have heart stories to tell, and some of us are hoping to change the narrative for the current path that we might be on, or maybe our entire family is on. To help make sense of heart health. We have Dr. John Hatanelas, OhioHealth cardiologist, and an old friend from NBC4 Jerod Smalley. I used to work there, and Jared and I worked together for quite a long time, and he has quite a story to tell with his heart and how he works now to educate and encourage others. It's great to see you both. Thanks for joining us on the podcast.
Lindsey Gordon 00:55
Dr. Hatanelas, let's start with you. Let's talk about the big picture here, when we're talking about heart health and how you can really take care of it, what really matters? What's the heart of the matter here, when it comes to your heart and keeping it healthy? And what is heart disease?
Dr. Hatanelas 01:13
Yeah, it's a broad question. I think that there's multiple facets to heart health. You know, there's kind of three ways to break it down, electrical, mechanical and plumbing. I think we predominantly fixate on the plumbing aspect, which is where people are having heart attacks and plaque buildup. But there's also, I think we'll talk later a little bit about more mechanical, structural parts. I think the biggest factor is probably exercise, right? We have to be active. We're meant to be active in terms of what plugs up the pipes. Can just imagine, like putting food down the kitchen sink, if you put too much down, eventually it tends to plug up. We're in a modern paradigm where there's a ton of food. Maybe we're not quite built for that, and we don't know quite how to process it, and so we're seeing a lot more juvenile diabetes, obesity, and therefore we're seeing heart attacks in people now in their like 30s and 40s, where mom and dad might have been more like 60s, 70s. So it's generationally. It seems like it's sneaking down to lower ages, but, yeah, I think the biggest thing is what we put in our body, and then how we treat our body through exercise and activity.
Marcus Thorpe 02:22
Jarod, you were an active guy. You exercised, you ate right. I know because you and I worked together and I would see it. You're the guy who brought your food in. You didn't go eat fast food and all of those things, and yet, you have quite a heart story to tell. Why don't you share a little bit about that.
Jerod Smalley 02:40
It's a big bummer, be honest. But you know, this happened when I was 39 so it happened in August of 2018 and the circumstances were extraordinarily weird. I was in the best shape of my life at that point. I was college athlete and all of that, and I had stayed, you know, active, you know, even post athletic career and everything seemed, you know, pretty fine. No big deal we're doing. We're doing good. You know, I get home from work one night, and so Marcus, as you know, obviously, you know, as well as you like to get home late, like sometimes midnight. Got home at midnight, brush my teeth, laid down, go to sleep, and within seconds, my whole right side went numb, and I couldn't like, I literally could not form a word. I couldn't talk, and I my wife was still awake, which never happens. So she like, I like, I could not make the words to say, I can't move my mouth. And I remember looking at her face and her like, instant panic of like, oh, there's a problem. And it wasn't until that happened that I registered that something was wrong. And within like, 20 seconds it passed, and I, like, started to calm down, and, like, my legs were kind of trembling, but I couldn't figure out, you know, like, what, what happened? So we got in the car, we went to OhioHealth. We actually first went to the Westerville location, and we just stopped there was like, hey, like, I can walk. Like, I'm, am I good? You know, can we help? Can we figure this out? And within a few minutes, they were like, well, we're not sure, but we're going to send you to Riverside we do a full workup. So I get here to Riverside, and it takes a while to go through all of the analysis, and it took about a day, and next morning, neurologist on duty comes in and says, So did they tell you about the stroke? And I'm like, who's the they, first of all, but what? And he's like, Yeah, but here's what happened. And so through the imaging, they found that I had a hole in the heart, basically. And the reality is, this was, this was going to happen to me. This was going to happen at some point in my life, in all likelihood, and it was just an issue of when, not if. And so, a birth defect, nothing I did, nothing I could have necessarily done and, like, said, I mean, like, we're doing okay, feeling pretty good. Physicals were great. I have a great health doc, literally, my family medicine is right across the street, doing great, yeah. But when that happened, then it came into, okay, well, what are we going to do about it? Thankfully, PFO closure is an extraordinarily it's like drive through surgery. And I had Dr. Steven Yakubov, who is one of the very best on earth at that procedure, let alone in Ohio. And despite the fact he's a Michigan grad, we will allow him to still get his credit. He obviously an extraordinary doctor, an extraordinary guide through what health life really is when you're paying attention to things. He was also a big coach, so when I had the surgery roughly a month later, for him, it was like his 17th procedure of the day, and it was no big deal. And to me, it's like I'm walking into the hospital and genuinely wondering, Am I walking out? And to him, it's nothing. And it was the most I remember everything about I was 100% awake. I remember everything about the procedure. I remember what music was playing in the or I remember everything about that day. We had a full conversation while he was doing the repair about golf. We talked about Rory McIlroy while he is deploying this closure device, and all the reason I'm telling you all of that detail is just because I can now think back vividly as to what a bizarre situation that I found myself in instantly, yeah, with absolutely no warning, no significant history, my father had a stroke, But it had been for completely different circumstances. Back in like 2008 my grandfather had had a medley of heart attacks. But genetics weren't necessarily the exact reason this happened, but there were concerns, and to see it come to reality when you're 39 is a pretty tough spot. Thankfully, I think it was two weeks after the surgery, I ran a 5k really. I mean, it was bananas. I just was like...
Lindsey Gordon 07:30
Why?
Jerod Smalley 07:32
Because I could.
Lindsey Gordon 07:33
Did it change your perspective on life?
Jerod Smalley 07:35
Yeah, a lot. But I think it's, I think that's true for all of us who go through some kind of traumatic, you know, incident, I think you just sort of, you're never going to be more motivated. And I understand for some people, it's the opposite, where you go through that, and you kind of turtle, and you just worried. And I thought, Well, I mean, Dr. Yakubov was one of those people. Was like, physically, you're fine. This is not about your heart. You're good. We did the repair. We're going to come back and we're going to do follow ups in six and 12 months and 18 months, we're going to make sure that the blood flow is restricted as it should be, and you're going to be okay. But you need to go out there now, because mentally, you need to get over this hurdle. Once you get over it the other side, you're going to be all right, but that was a, you know, just think about that two-month stretch is obviously the most bizarre of my life. And I've told you all this before. I mean, my appreciation for the entire staff in the silver tower at Riverside Hospital at OhioHealth is I can't fathom how good they are at their jobs. I can't believe and they do it every day for people who are of all sorts of severity when it comes to their heart issues. I just I felt so fortunate to have that level of care that kind of got me back up and running. Here's the other weird one, after the stroke. Six days later, I was on the air.
Marcus Thorpe 09:09
Crazy!
Jerod Smalley 09:11
And that was a wild and the reason again, it's the same idea. It was like, Well, I can do it, yeah, you have to go do it.
Marcus Thorpe 09:20
Yeah, that's right. Get back to your life. I mean, I think that's what a lot of this is, is, once you've identified what the problem is, it's been fixed, from what you can tell, and then you go and do your work. So Doc, I think it's a great place to kind of bring you back in the conversation here. You know, Jared's situation, while a lot of people have had to have this kind of surgery before, a lot more people have just some run of the mill heart issues, right? Whether it's man, woman, family members, things that are going on. Let's talk about what we're seeing in this space right now. It seems like a lot of people are dealing with some heart related issues.
Dr. Hatanelas 09:59
For sure, it's the tricky part with heart health, a lot of it is preventable, right? As we've kind of gleaned that it seems to be more of a byproduct of indulgence, right? Gluttony, coping mechanisms, I mean, to hear your hardship and the way you dealt with it was tremendous. Other people might turn to something like food for comfort or reward, and, you know, not pushing themselves, not exercising, kind of going into more of a state of depression and angst. And I think that's where a lot of times we find people having the most insidious problems as they get these habits, and all of a sudden they start getting diseases 5, 10, 20 years down the road, and habit is tough to change, so I think that as we reshape medicine to not necessarily think about, how do I give you your next pill to help you? How do I help you heal you? How do you get deeper meaning and purpose so that maybe you don't have the habits that are harmful when we know that a lot of cardiovascular disease is preventable, but it's a bit of a paradigm shift that will have to happen within medicine. But I think the biggest thing people can do is advocate for their families themselves by trying to eat to heal, not just pleasure and reward. It's probably one of the biggest things.
Lindsey Gordon 11:19
I also like how you said, advocate for your families. Because as I'm sitting here listening to you both talk, I'm thinking about myself and my role as like the mom in our family, and I am someone who makes all the healthcare decisions for our family, right? Like I'm scheduling all the appointments and all the things and I mean, Jarod, what was that like for your wife? I mean, she luckily was awake that one time you know that you got home late and was there saw but what was that like for her navigating this journey with you? I mean, I'm sure she was right in it with you the whole time.
Jerod Smalley 11:51
Marcus knows her well. She's pretty organized, pretty serious. She was a heck of a television producer back in the day. She's extremely organized, and she makes educated, thoughtful decisions. But even the most thoughtful, most prepared person can never really prepare for something that out of left field. I just don't think that's realistic. So it's, it's really preparing your family for, not necessarily worst case, but the unexpected. How prepared are you when things aren't perfect, when they're not according to plan? That's your test. That's how you find out you know where you are, how organized you are, because that's going to lead to your best outcome. I think it's the same thing with, you know, your own personal health. You know, we just turn to a new year, right? And this is the time for a resolution to flood gyms and to say, this is the year I lose the 20 pounds. This is the year. But I think most people know that those steps are very small at the beginning, that you can't run a marathon today, but you can take your first steps. And I think if you're that person who maybe you've had some heart issues, or maybe you're concerned about or you have a family history, I think you know something about a conversation that I had with some of the neurologists after I was finishing up my appointments here is that they were like, You know what? Because you were in pretty good shape, there's an excellent chance that your body responded in a stronger position. Because, I mean, it's one of those, like, we think that could be true. I don't know if there was any way to metrically prove it, but they were that was a big part of the conversation. They were like, if you hadn't been in good shape, you might have had a very different outcome. And so I think the biggest thing that you can do is be proactive, instead of reactive. Take the first steps. Now consider what you're eating. I think, Dr., you made an excellent point there about you know, we have a lot of options for food, which is a blessing. It's a great thing, but it's how do you make ones that you eat for fuel, as opposed to eating for, you know, enjoyment or indulgence, and simple little switches like that are just like anything else. It's just creating a habit. And when you create the habit, then it doesn't feel like work, and that is your best option. We can't control everything, you know? I think when you go through situations like this, it hits you like a truck, you know, it's like, I know I can't control everything, but there are things that you can control today, in your own personal choices and behavior that give you a better chance. Yeah. And so I think that message, if anybody's listening to this, is, even, you know, concerned a little bit. It's such an easy thing to do that you will leave no regret. You will have no regret if you take those first steps, make good choices, give yourself a better chance.
Marcus Thorpe 14:54
Yeah, routine and habit. I mean, that's a big part of, you know, being successful in anything but. But certainly within the diet and the heart health that we're talking about too. Dr. Hatanelas, let's talk about treatment options for those that are going through maybe some difficult times that are heart related issues, medications, if you need a procedure, there's a lot of non invasive procedures now that maybe weren't available 15, 25, 50 years ago. What are we seeing when it comes to some of those advancements?
Dr. Hatanelas 15:22
Yeah, I think when we talk about maybe the mechanical portion, which is kind of where we're at with your PFO, that's a pretty simple fix. 25% of the people are born with this patent for amino Valley, and only a tiny percentage of those will ever succumb to what he unfortunately had to go through. But identifying those we don't definitively know yet, but it is a quick percutaneous fix, meaning we go through the vein and close everything up. You go home the same day. No big deal in terms of plumbing, the techniques just keep evolving rapidly. These guys are using a lot more imaging guiding too, to decide where to put stents, defining plaque morphologies, because not all plaque is equal. So in terms of screening, though, we're seeing a bit of an uptick with CT scans, so we're able to do calcium scores to identify calcified plaque on people, maybe get preventative therapies in place first, statins still being kind of the go to but we know that our risk screening models that we use with prediction, where we put in variables into a calculator, essentially aren't 100% accurate. So maybe getting more objective data with like a calcium score, high sensitivity CRPS, they get, maybe guide you a little bit more in a different direction.
Lindsey Gordon 16:38
I want to ask you more too about like, for children you brought up you you're seeing younger and younger patients, especially with, you know, the food. I mean, I think about the stuff that's in my diaper bag, that's on the go, right? Like, that's just stuff that will travel, right? Like, I could put an avocado in there. I said this before, but, I mean, it's, it'll get messy, right? And I've been strategic in ways to get my kids to eat healthy, but at the end of the day, sometimes they just want that, you know, processed granola bar and I have to lose that fight. But I think about that and I wonder, you know, what advice you have for someone like me, for someone that's just, like, really conscious of trying to make sure my kids eat healthy, but sometimes it's a battle.
Dr. Hatanelas 17:21
It is. And I feel for you, because my wife and I have the same battle of, how do we, you know, manage time and nutrition, and that is a tricky conundrum to balance. So I you know, the food industry, though, unfortunately and the government probably being complicit to some extent, allowing them to manufacture food that is highly palatable, because they know, in essence, when you give your kids, or we do something that drives dopamine, makes them feel good, they start developing a client for life, because they'll learn emotional eating or trigger foods, you know, things that they can go to. And it's hard to avoid that entirely, right? Like, but I think you just modify it. Like, when is fast food ever good? Like, I don't know. Like, does McDonald's have any real nutritional content that somebody needs? It's purely meant for hedonic delight, right? Like, you get reward from it, immediate gratification. But there's no true health benefit. So I don't know. How do we shy away from that with our kids? And do we remember the times when we didn't have the abundance of food throughout our evolution, where we were probably built more for famine and fasting, not knowing when the next meal was coming, and now, all of a sudden, you could get 1000 or 2000 calories in your body in a matter of minutes, you know, just by going across the street and hitting a local fast food shop. And I don't think evolutionarily, we're built to know how to handle that. So if we inundate our kids with it at a young age, we're seeing, you know, again, it's slow. It's that insidious process of over time, all of a sudden, you know, 10 or 20 years go by, and 50% of the populations obese kids, have more diabetes, like I said, stents are going in in younger ages.
Marcus Thorpe 19:09
Jarod, I know that your situation again was nothing you did. It's just the way that your body came for you. But whenever that happened, how much when everybody knew you're going to be okay and you got back into your routine, did your family talk about heart health? Did you start talking about it outside of your bubble with like people you ran out on the street, they were asking you questions? Has that really jump started some conversations that you're glad in some way, that you were able to at least be in those conversations?
Jerod Smalley 19:39
I think the best part about that Marcus is the fact that I'm on television every day, and people could see someone every day working through it, you know. And so when I actually met with some stroke survivor groups in the couple years afterward, that was the biggest thing they told me, is that. Um, you know, the outcomes are obviously wildly different. I ended up not having any significant deficits, maybe some, you know, some little numbness here and there, some weird things that maybe I don't quite understand. But generally, we're good, right? But that's certainly not the case for most stroke survivors, they go through a completely different journey. And so I think the fact that I was on every day and they were able to watch somebody who had been through it kind of was important for them in their recovery and for motivation. And that's awesome, but that, I mean, that was like an unintended thing. I think the biggest thing was conversations with people. The one thing when you go through a traumatic incident is that everybody wants to hear the story, and so you end up telling the story over and over and over again and reliving it over so it's, you know, You're reliving the worst moment of your life over and over and over again. And there is a numbness that you develop. You're sort of calloused after a while in telling the story. So now sitting here, it's like, there will be no issues. I'll sleep fine. I was worried about but, but it's just, it's a it's a thing where you have to get down the line with that. It's that same with your conversation with your family, right? Because I said my dad had already had a stroke in 2008 cerebral situation, completely different situation, and his recovery was difficult, and he still suffers from, you know, some of the residuals from that story, pretty debilitating situation, and it did bond us more. For sure, we were able to talk more about, you know, when he described numbness, I actually knew what he was saying. I had a better concept of what that really felt like. And so I think you know, from that standpoint, it certainly matters. But my wife takes great, great care of herself. I try to do that with my kids. My kids are both in a unique situation. They're both autism kids, and so their diets are obviously sometimes extremely limited, very rigid. And that's where the last few years, especially with my youngest, Tyler, trying to introduce new foods. He'll do it. But it took forever to get there. They were, we're gonna eat this one thing. We're gonna eat every day for every meal forever. And it was breaking down that door. Try this. You'll like it. This is a green food. Try it. Okay, so it's developing trust, and that is not an issue of I just want them to eat better. Of course I do, but there is that part of me that's like, well, maybe we need to eat better, because genetically, we know what the part of their makeup is. And so I think that's a great question about if it's ever been a part of your family conversation? Obviously, it's worth having a conversation, but it's really worth it anyway.
Marcus Thorpe 22:47
Yeah, you know my dad had his first heart attack, and he was 34, second one when he was in his 40s, and passed away when he was 51, from a heart attack, a third one. So, smoker, heavy smoker, traveled, super stressful job, right? And so all of those things, knowing when he died, I'm in my late 40s, makes me worried about my own heart. So every time I feel a twinge or something like that, I'm like, Oh, what is that? What is that? And then I regularly go to my doctor and we do the echoes, and they're like, everything's clear. You've never had a heart attack, everything's fine, but how much does family history doc play into heart disease and those kind of things?
Dr. Hatanelas 23:28
Yeah, I imagine it plays a bigger role than we currently understand. There's currently something called polygenic risk scores going on to see if we can find snippets or ideas from people's genome on how risk they may be. It's the data is still little murky. It's not entirely clear, but there's definitely more to the picture than just cholesterol, or weight, or a lot of different things. I see people all the time, you know, built scrawny, like me, that are having heart attacks with normal cholesterol. It's like, well, how the hell did that happen? You know, just so cholesterol is a piece of the picture, but I think that inflammation is probably one of the bigger drivers, and so independent of lowering people's cholesterol. You know, I'd taken my lipid boards and learned all these advanced things about lipid lowering, or cholesterol lowering, and just three years out of practice, had just had this epiphany, like, God, I'm seeing people back over and over again, despite having really no cholesterol. I mean, we're lowering it to unbelievably low levels, and they still are having recurrent events. So it's kind of like, how can that be? If the paradigm is right, like cholesterol, it's high treat, it shouldn't have heart attacks anymore. So inflammation, I think, is probably the bigger factor at play, and that's what led me to take my lifestyle medicine boards, was that maybe it is more to just what we put in our body, and not necessarily a number like with a cholesterol where there's an association with heart disease, but it doesn't seem to encompass the whole picture. I think, you know, that's maybe where the shift will go, hopefully down the road is just getting back to basic eating.
Lindsey Gordon 25:08
Yep, that's so interesting. Well, we've loved having you both on the podcast, and we're going to wrap up with just a final few questions. Jarod, you've been so great to share your story, and I hope it at least helps one person listening. What message do you really want people to take to heart?
Jerod Smalley 25:24
The biggest thing is take care of yourself. And I mean, it sounds so simple, and I know that, but it it doesn't hurt to be reminded of the good you can do taking the first step. And again, I think it in this new year, if you're that person who's just kind of been I'll get to it, I'll get to it, I'll get to it. Get to it now, get to it. And I by that, I mean start slowly, go for a walk in your neighborhood. Do some very basic things to where you can get to just feeling a little bit better, having a tick more energy in the morning when you get up, taking a really critical look at your eating schedule, your snacking schedule. How much sleep are you getting? You know, I was a big for a long time. I was like, if I got six, I was great. And that is not the case anymore. I'm at seven and a half or eight most nights. And it's not just because I'm getting old, it's because I genuinely think it's important to maintain a healthy weight. It's important, I think, for your energy level, for the while you're up, and all of those things can just help. Clearly, there are things you can't control, and so I know that, and it stinks, it's a part of it. But there are so many things you can and that's a beautiful thing, right? Like, how many things in life do you have genuine, 100% control over? Not that many things. And so the fact that you can dictate what you put in your body, you can dictate healthy habits. And I think the other critical portion of it is your mental health. How are you taking care of yourself? Are you being good to yourself, and are the people around you good for you, whether that's in your in your marital life, in your relationships, in your work life, if you find toxicity, if you find things that aren't healthy for you, all of that factors, I think, as you mentioned, you know, inflammation and stress, that is, I think, a critical factor. And as I look back at my, you know, career, I have lived a very stressful existence for a long time, when I was running our sports department for all those years, those are not 40 hour weeks, no, not even close. And it looks fun, yeah? It looks like, right? You get, you get to go to all the games I've seen, all the stadiums and all the games, yeah, but that did come at a cost, sure, and I don't you know, there are things about the job that I miss, for sure, but there's a lot of things I don't and a big part of it is that, especially now being on the other side of it and Marcus, you got to experience this too. Once you're on the other side of it and you're like, oh, that's how I lived, yep.
Lindsey Gordon 27:54
What's so funny is you still are in the news business. Just more sustainable shifts!
Jerod Smalley 28:01
Yeah, and something that I think is, you know, I love it. I loved what I did before, but now I've learned to appreciate doing it at a slightly different speed, at a slightly lower intensity, but still getting to do many things. I love to do, and I love to tell a good story. I know that's why you guys do what you do. You love to tell a great story, no matter whether you work in television or any form of journalism at all, when you go to the other side, my wife now works in communications like when you go to the other side, you still are driven every day by telling a really good story. That passion doesn't leave right, and the way that you get there is by having great energy. You're refreshed every day, you're enthused, you're motivated. And I think the best way to get there is to take the best possible care of yourself. And again, most of that is in your control.
Marcus Thorpe 28:53
Yeah. Dr. Hatanelas, we want to give you the kind of final say. What do you want people, what do you want patients, to be thinking about as they kind of jump start their heart health.
Dr. Hatanelas 29:04
I guess my biggest take home, because I think you articulated so much there that was very well thought out. I would say self introspection. Why am I eating? Why do I do what I do? And call yourself out before you eat, what you eat. Am I hungry? Am I eating because I'm stressed? Am I anxious? Am I depressed? And what are you putting in your body? You know, is it fuel to placate you, to make you feel good, or is it to heal you, to give you the energy and vitality that you need to be your best? And you know, think about negative consequence. You know, the food industry really has made delectable things for us so that despite negative consequence, we will come back and eat it. And that's a pretty powerful thing, when you think about it.
Marcus Thorpe 29:52
This has been a great episode you guys have really, I think, hopefully, opened up a lot of eyes and hearts to what the future could look like instead of maybe what it's looking like right now. So I really appreciate your time and your talents. It's really great. So thank you. And we thank you for joining us for this episode of the Wellness Conversation an OhioHealth podcast. Before we wrap up, we do invite you to follow us on all major social channels, making sure you stay up to date on any new episodes and other health and wellness topics. If you're looking for more information on OhioHealth services and locations, including our heart team, you can go to ohiohealth.com.
Lindsey Gordon 30:27
The information in this episode will also be available on the podcast page. Also be sure to subscribe and join the conversation. One final note before we say goodbye On this episode, we are just getting started. Reviews and ratings help us keep the conversation going with you, and it allows others to find us and join the conversation too. As always, thanks for joining us.