Grief Amidst the Glutter: Navigating Loss During the Holidays
November 2023 | Episode 5
Producer’s Note: The following is an AI-generated transcript of The Wellness Conversation, an OhioHealth Podcast
SPEAKERS: Marcus Thorpe, Missy Gleason, Jean O'Leary-Pyles
Welcome to the wellness conversation and OhioHealth podcast, a show dedicated to exploring health and wellness topics to inform and educate. I'm your host Marcus Thorpe and I'm joined by my co-host, Missy Gleason.
Thanks, Marcus. If you're a regular listener, we welcome you back. And if this is your first time welcome to you. Just to catch you up on who we are. Marcus and I are teammates on OhioHealth marketing and communications team. And we are very excited to have a very important topic to cover for you today.
We are very much in the thick of the holiday push Thanksgiving, Christmas, Kwanzaa, Hanukkah, and much more. And for many, these are times that are celebrated with family and friends, really, it can be a joyous time that a lot of people really look forward to.
And on today's episode, we'll be diving into the topic of grief during the holidays. Someone who experienced loss during the year or has lost someone in years past and is still struggling with some of that loss. This time of year can really bring forward some difficult times and really impacts connecting with family, friends and others.
And to help us better understand this topic. We have a very special guest joining us today, Jean O'Leary-Pyles, community grief counselor for OhioHealth hospice and OhioHealth at home. Thanks
for joining us today, Jean.
Of course, it's good to be here.
So, can you tell us a little bit about the work you do for OhioHealth specifically in the world of grief?
Yes, of course. I am a community grief counselor with OhioHealth. And I provide grief support to people in our community who have had a loss not through a hospice program. And so sometimes they are some anticipated losses without hospice involvement. Lately, there tending to be more unexpected and traumatic losses. And so we offer six to eight sessions, sometimes more than that, based on the experience of the Griever. And we are fortunate in that we are supported by donations and donors in our community. So we don't charge for our services. And we don't bill insurance.
Let's talk about grief. It's a tough topic, one just to discuss because a lot of people don't want to talk about their feelings. But also, grief is really different. I think Gene and you're the expert on the topic, I shouldn't be telling you, but it seems like it's different for each individual person based on the loss and where they are in their life. But can you just talk about how grief kind of presents itself? Many times?
Yes, of course. So as you said, it is a very unique and individual experience, but it's also a whole body experience. And so people experience grief, emotionally, right through sadness and anger and frustration, sometimes some relief, depression, anxiety, mentally, they experience oftentimes difficulty processing information, they may experience brain fog, they may have thoughts of regret or guilt. Physically, they may experience tightness in their chest or their stomach, they may feel just the sense of overwhelm. They may not be able to eat or drink very much, they may have disruptions in their sleep. And then spiritually, they may step into their faith, they may begin to question their faith, they may have a sense of disconnection may have a sense that they don't know who they are anymore, especially without their person. So again, very unique for each individual, but a whole-body experience. I think we tend to think about what people are feeling. And we don't always think about what's what they're experiencing on the inside.
And especially now in this season, I can imagine it brings different layers of grief. Can you talk about how it might the holidays might shift to that grief or change it?
Yes, of course. So when we think about holidays, regardless of faith traditions, I think we are typically people who come together, we come together with people who are important to us, family and friends. And we are coming together in a common purpose, right? Whether it's celebration of a holiday, ritual, tradition, etc. And when your person isn't there with you, it can feel very, very different. And so some people don't know how to be with the holiday right and want to step away from it. Other people will step into it in new ways. But when others around you are experiencing joy and anticipation of all of these wonderful experiences that you've had in the past as well, and you're not feeling it. It can feel like a disconnection to the world around you.
I kind of want to go a little bit deeper on that. Because I think that's an important thing. Everybody has that. I wouldn't say everybody, but a lot of people have that holiday cheer mindset, right? Oh, it's this time of the year, I shouldn't be happy, I should be going, I should be going to a party, I should be experiencing that with my friends and family. How does the expectation of that kind of holiday cheer that people have mentally, in their own mind, impact those who are grieving really hard during this time of the year?
Sure, so that key word is expectation, both expectations that we have for ourselves in grief, and who we should be, and expectations that other whole others hold for us who we should be right. But, you know, if you're grieving, there may be this expectation that you have, again, for yourself or from others, that you need to be happy, and you need to be part of everything in the same way carry on the same traditions, and you just may not feel like it. So part of those expectations, and experiencing that holiday cheer is recognizing that that's not for you, and you're not in that place of cheer. And that's okay. And so there are, again, ways to sort of step into it to allow others to know what's going to be helpful for you, maybe to not have the holiday meal at your house, as you've always done, because it's just too hard. But that doesn't mean that you won't go to someone else's house. So really changing it up a little bit. But recognizing that that cheer is something that others may have and hold and certainly are entitled to, of course, but you don't need to be in that place in space, if that's not where you are. So it's okay to not be okay. It is okay to not be okay. In fact, there's a book by Meghan Devine, by that title, and she talks about being a widow unexpectedly and her journey through grief to very relatable book, that's very helpful.
So if it's okay, not to be okay. And that's absolutely understandable. How do you know as somebody who is grieving when it's time to ask for help in your grief?
Sure. So I think the first thing is to know that help is available, and that there was no stigma around asking for help, that it can be incredibly meaningful to have someone to process with. But, you know, there were these stages of grief that Dr. willed William Ward and has written and talked about actually tasks of grief. And the first is really accepting the reality of the loss. The second is experiencing the pain. The third is sort of living in this place of what was and what is and will be, and the fourth is living in this place of sort of new normal, it doesn't mean letting go but moving with. And I think when people aren't able to move beyond pain, and move beyond that place of what was and what is and will be, that may be the time to ask for help. I describe it sometimes as this chapters of your life. And part of your story in your narrative is the fact that you had this person in your life who's no longer with you. And as people are, you know, moving between having that person in their life and figuring out how to be in this world in a way in space that is meaningful, there's a point when they can put a chapter or excuse me a period at the end of the last chapter, and continue writing their story, when they can't put that period when they're still living in the old chapter. And can't quite step into the present in any kind of a meaningful way for an extended period of time. That's when it becomes a problem. And when it may be helpful to get some professional support.
We want to dive a little bit into short term grief and kind of the more immediate grief that you have when there's a sudden loss. And then we're also going to talk a little bit more about more the longer term grief where you're still grieving even though the incident or the loss has happened maybe a while ago. So from a short-term perspective, can you talk about dealing with a sudden loss of a loved one or maybe a close friend or someone a co worker? How does that impact somebody and in their grief cycle?
Sure. So I think what happens is immediately when you lose someone, some people will shut down and kind of go through the motions. I had a client the other day who said she finally woke up after two weeks her verbiage of sort of not even being present in the space and place around her. So you're in this place of not even being able to fully accept and understand what just happened. So that There's a time when people can't process information, they can't sleep, they can't make good decisions they just are trying to manage. So short term grief is this place in space of being in a whirlwind, and not being necessarily fully connected with the world around you. Now, that being said, again, every grief experience is individual based on the relationship and the way the loss happened. And the developmental age and stage of the individual who had the loss. So there are some people who experience a loss, and can move right back into sort of this new normal way of being and may not experience those short term kind of more acute symptoms. Long term grief is, you know, having moved through those some of those tasks of grief, and no longer feeling that that guttural feeling when you think about the one you've lost, it's about being able to remember your person with sweetness and not with sadness. And so grief is always with you, it never leaves you, you just learn how to carry it a little differently. And it's a little more manageable, I'd like to think of us managing our grief, as opposed to our grief managing us, which is what happens early on.
So during the holidays, it's, I can imagine it would be even harder to suffer a loss and experienced grief. Like we were saying earlier, seeing everybody with holiday cheer. I can imagine for a child going through a loss during the holidays. I mean, when your child, those losses are typically few and far between or that's the first time you've experienced that. How can you support a child through grief during the holidays?
Great question, of course, again, depends on the age and stage developmentally of that child and the relationship. But I think what's most important is giving that opportunity for that child to have voice to be able to talk about their thoughts and feelings, and to receive those thoughts and feelings for whatever they are, you know, not encouraging that child to be okay, or just move forward, I will share on a personal note that my father died when I was six very unexpectedly. And my mother, and my four siblings, then kind of tried to figure out how to move forward. But we didn't talk about it. That was a time and perhaps a coping mechanism for my mother that it was about just survival and moving forward and being your best. So we didn't talk about it. And that's not okay. Right. So being able to, to say the name of the loved one, being able to cry together being able to model for your children, that it's okay to feel a wide range of emotions. At OhioHealth. We have grief support for children as well, both through community and hospice. But we also have a very extensive school based program where children can receive some grief support in the schools with some of their peers who've also been experiencing loss.
Let's talk about friends and family. Obviously, if you are close to someone, you know, when someone's lost, and you know that they may be experiencing a different stage or point of their grief. How can folks be there? Or, or support someone who's clearly going through some difficult times?
Yeah. So I think one of the first things is simply being available, again, without expectation, but to say, I'm here to talk if you'd like bringing over a meal, raking the leaves, little things sending a care basket, I sometimes will send you a picture of a quote that I've seen on Facebook or Instagram, I'll just text it to them and say no need to respond. I'm thinking about you. And so those little pieces of reaching out to people and letting them know, you know, because one of the things that many people say is that everybody else has moved on their friends don't call them or check in on him anymore. And the reality is, their friends didn't experience the loss. Their friends experienced a friend who experienced a loss. So they don't always understand the gravity of the experience for the individual. And so part of what we talk about is our expectations, expectations that we have others and letting others know what we need. So the first holiday without a special loved one has got to be a diff Hold space to be Are there any practices or rituals I, for lack of a better word that might help somebody get through that? Sure. There are. I think some families, I always encourage acknowledging in some way that your person is not here, whether it's at the table for the meal, some people will leave a chair empty and with a place setting, some people will light a special candle with a blessing. I was at an event recently with my family has a family reunion. And there was a blessing that one of through relation a great grandfather had written. And so that blessing is passed on to somebody at that reunion each year to be able to have the honor of reading the blessing. So that first year, it's picking someone choosing someone to be able to carry on that tradition and roll, it may be fixing their favorite meal, even if nobody liked it. But fixing it anyway, sharing stories, asking people to write something down and have a memory box, play their favorite music. So as much as possible, being able to step into the holiday, and honor and remember, although for some, they just can't step into it. And so it's okay to say not this year, it's okay to say, I can stay for an hour and then I'll need to leave. But just in some way trying to step into, and at least have a glimpse of what your new norm might look like. And you'll have time years to come to continue to work on that.
Team, I want to talk a little bit longer term grief. You know, you've lost someone a while ago, still impacts you on a yearly basis, especially maybe during this holiday season. How do you deal with that kind of grief where it's not so immediate and unexpected, but it's something that now you've been living with for quite a while? How is that different?
It's different, because, you know, it's, it's, it's ever present, but it's not ever present on the surface. So you're always carrying your grief. But recognizing that stepping into those special days and holidays, it is a special day marked that your person isn't there. So you learn how to get through the Monday through Fridays without your person but every time something special arises. Even if it's a special wedding day. And you're, you know, your parent isn't there, but you remember your parent on that wedding day, you remember what they taught you. So I think it's about acknowledging that that's going to happen. And having again, a ritual, something that that is helpful. Some people journal, some people write letters to their loved one, of course, they don't send them but that very act of letting their person know. There are some, some programs actually it started in Japan, but they are around the states as well. And we have one where there is literally a phone, it's not a cell phone, but a phone where people can step up to the phone and call their loved one. Now I'm a little practical. And so the thought of talking with someone who's not there is a little more challenging for me, but people love it and being able to step in and have a conversation because we know our loved ones and we know what they would say we know what they would tell us. And so it's that sense of connection. So you know, being able to have a connection, being able to acknowledge that there is some bitter sweetness for having known someone and love someone and lost someone. But it doesn't have to stop you in your tracks
possibly it just depends. Again, every hospice experiences is different. I was a hospice social worker for 25 years prior to moving into this position. So was at the bedside of many people and their family members as they were moving through death. You know, Dr. Elisabeth Kubler Ross wrote about the stages of death and dying. Deny denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, and that was really related to somebody who's facing the end of life, not grief, but assumably People have some time to prepare and anticipate and think about the fact that their loved one is not going to be with them. However, there's this healthy coping mechanism called denial, which is very it lives in the same room with hope. And so even though the facts are in front of us, sometimes that something is going to likely happen, because of how we cope, we may not be able to touch that. And so a death even though it's anticipated, from a medical perspective, it may not have been anticipated even with some knowledge on an emotional level. So I would say for the most part, there are opportunities in hospice to have conversations to, to say goodbye to share with your loved one, what they've taught you and meant to you. And to reinforce that you're going to be okay, that that doesn't happen when you experience a sudden and unexpected death. But that's not to say that hospice deaths are easier by any means. I will say when somebody does expect or experience excuse me, an unexpected death, that there does seem to be more shocking and disbelief, this sense of being in this surreal world of did this really happen or not? Is my loved one just on the business trip that they are always on? Are they going to come home? Are they going to call me? Did they just text me? So when it's unexpected like that out of the blue, that can be a much more difficult experience, at least initially.
It's been a really important conversation, we do have just a couple of final thoughts on the topic of grief. And I'm not really even sure how to how to word this properly. But how do you know if you've moved past your grief? I don't know if that's even the right way to say it past your grief.
Yeah, some people. So I would say living with your grief. Right? So there's this, this idea that some people have that you just need to move on, just move forward. And it's this sense that you have control over your grief, when again, really your grief has control over you. And you begin to take the opportunity to process it. But I would say when you're living in this space of finding your new normal of the acknowledging that your loved ones not with you, and yet, life is lovely, and beautiful and inspiring and encouraging. And it doesn't have to be all about the person that you've lost. Otherwise, we'd all be stuck in a place in space of not being able to move forward and have new relationships and you know, experience our loved one again, the best way I can say is with sweetness.
I can imagine that being in that first holiday season, it might feel almost like a betrayal to your loved one you've lost if you are happy, or experiencing cheerfulness, can you address that and kind of give our listeners some hope?
Yeah, that is a very common experience that in their grief, you know, they lost someone, and they should be in this place in space of sadness. But it really is okay to be happy and joyful. And that's actually a healthy step of living in the here and now in future as opposed to the what was. And I think it's the idea that two truths can live in the same room at the same time. I think I mentioned earlier, but people can be sad and experience joy at the same time. So you're not being disrespectful or minimizing of your grief. In fact, you are sort of incorporating your new reality into your way of being. And I think the other thing to remember, none of us would want our loved ones after our death to be in this place. Place in space of sadness forever. And so just remembering that our loved ones likely would want us to experience joy and new things in life.
I've loved all of our topics so far that we've had on this in this podcast, but this has really been one of those ones that I thought was really important. And I was interested to hear a person's perspective that lives in this world and you really have opened my eyes to a lot of this and it's been really impactful for me and I know for our listeners, so we appreciate your expertise on the topic, talking about grief, especially during the holidays. Since we've covered a lot of that we do want to switch gears we want our listeners to get to know our guests also just a little bit too, not just as professionals but as people. We love having a chance Let's connect and see the human side of your expertise. So Jean, just a couple of final questions for you do you have a cherished holiday tradition around this time of year that you'd like to share with our listeners something that you've really leaned into?
I do. So as I mentioned, I have so now I have five siblings, and our fondest remember, my fondest memories, and I think my siblings would say the same was coming together at Thanksgiving and Christmas time. And sitting around the large dining room table, you know, who gets to sit at the table who has to be at the cart tables in the other room. And, and just the joking that goes on in the room. It's sort of this tradition in my family. Now that my mother and stepfather have died, we come together at Thanksgiving, and we do that same joking I look forward to it greatly, and not everybody can always be there, because of distance or other practical things going on. But we all know that when we come together, there's going to be lots of laughter and silly wordplay jokes. And for me that that's really what it what it is.
Graduating to the big kids table is a big deal.
It's a big deal. It's a big deal.
Sometimes I want to go back to the kids table right? For me, that looks like a lot more fun over there.
It's true.
So final question. Is there a book or a movie that has had a significant impact on you? And then I kind of wanted to do a two part - anything you would suggest that our listeners check out during this holiday season?
Sure. So I tend to be the person who sees a movie or reads a book and loves it and then moves on to the next and love that one or put it down. I will say I love the movie hair. I've always loved it. Just love the sense of community and love message in it. I am reading think like a monk by Jay Shetty right now. And it's about he talks about finding your calm your peace, your purpose in life and some strategies to help you do that. So love that. professionally. I love the book, what's your grief. It's written by two social workers who have been counselors for some time in the grief world. And they they've been known for making lists. There's actually a list 64 things to do to survive the holidays. So all kinds of lists around managing grief. So they finally came out with the book, what's your grief, and it's a really nice again, relatable resource for people who are experiencing grief, lots of podcasts, lots of support groups coming up around the holidays, specific to grief. So just finding something that is accessible to you, and utilizing that to help you manage your grief through the holidays.
Very helpful. Thank you so much for joining us today. Jean. We really appreciate you.
You're most welcome. It's been good to be here.
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